03/10/14 158 W, 1 I - + 6 - 0 UPDATED: Cary's New Engine 4

Arriving this week at the Cary Fire Department is new Engine 4, a 2013 Pierce Velocity pumper, 1500/500. The truck sports a few new features, starting with a low hose bed. It's equipped in the rear with 1,200 feet of 5", 800 feet of 3", 250 foot 2.5" pre-connect, and two 200 foot 1 3/4" pre-connects. Plus two 1 3/4" speelays, one 1 3/4" crosslay, and a 150-foot 1 3/4" bumper load. The booster reels been moved to the top, instead of in a rear compartment.Also added are coffin compartments, a first for Cary engines. They've removed the on-board foam systems that were included with their last four engines. LED scene lighting on the sides of the truck are new. They've also returned to pressure governors versus traditional throttle/pressure relief values. The engine replaces a 1999 KME, which will be moved to the reserve fleet. The displaced reserve engine, a 1994? Pierce, will be sold as surplus. 

No foam system? Not planning on going to any fires in the next 20 years?
harkey - 03/12/14 - 00:41

What? They took something out of the toolbox, off with their heads!
Posse - 03/12/14 - 07:24

I’m sure a significant cost savings, $40k+. Has everyone forgotten how to use an eductor, tube, and bucket of foam?
Stretching the Line - 03/12/14 - 09:04

Forty grand is nothing to sneeze at! That’s about a tenth or an eighth of the cost of the total truck? Remember, these trucks are bought on a budget. What you don’t buy with a foam system, my equal LED scene lights added, or LED warning lights, or another feature deemed more useful.
LJM - 03/12/14 - 09:39

What kind of foam system are they buying for $40K? That seems pretty steep… The last truck the my former VFD purchased had a Foam Pro Class A system added for about $2500.00. I didn’t even think a CAFS was that high….
PBM - 03/12/14 - 11:59

The current E4 will be disposed of due to getting parts for repair from KME and the Pierce that is noted. We have had some problems with the current foam system and going back to the more reliable way I guess. I know when the current system is used a lot of foam gets wasted when flushing the system b/c it is pretty much on/off when flowing unless it is for an extended time on a scene. The current E8 will be replaced in the future and that Pierce will go in reserve. Thanks
MSW - 03/12/14 - 13:36

Danton - 03/13/14 - 09:35

My understanding and maybe I’m wrong but the the foam system was left off this truck because it is a $40k money saver, also because the truck is in the center of town with no first due major highway response. If foam is needed on scene in the mostly residential district there will be several other engines on scene with the foam system or they can just do it the traditional way. Nice truck!
JR - 03/13/14 - 10:02

Foam System is not $40k however the Pierce husky 12 can do twice as much foam as the foam Pro!!!!! Thanks for the ones that like this truck. The Town of Cary guys done a very good job on this. 100” wide body with New York hose load!! If anyone has any questions please feel free to email me! Cholland@atlanticeemergency.com
Chad Holland (Email) (Web Site) - 03/13/14 - 10:14

I was specifically addressing the lack of a foam system for Class A foam, and having the option of using enhanced water on 95% of the fires that this unit will go to. Yes, you can do it the old way from a bucket, but I doubt that will ever happen. With a foam system, you have the ability to add agent to an attack line with the flick of the switch.
harkey - 03/13/14 - 10:23

What about that hose bed? Good move!
Wheeler - 03/13/14 - 10:25

Jeff, Thanks for the comments. I can speak for the committee that the foam system was the first thing we discussed removing when faced with cutting costs. That said it was an easy decision. We have 4 of our 8 engines now with onboard foam systems. 3 of which have Class A and Class B. For the amount they are currently used, versus cost (both to purchase and maintain), the benefit was not there. In addition, and most importantly, we had the support of our administration. The current Engine 4 just put buckets of Class A foam on the truck within the past 2 years. And it has only been used once, that I know of, since and that was the house fire last week for mop up. We carry 10 gal of both Class A and Class B. It was also discussed if it was needed “in a hurry” we can batch mix it directly in the tank if needed, but until then the good old eductor will serve our needs in our district well.

I know I can say that I’m beyond excited to see this addition to our fleet, and even more excited to have been a small part of specifying the engine that I drive. I think we did a pretty good job, and while I’m sure we will find things we can improve on, I don’t think anybody has ever bought the “perfect” engine.

We have also just been told we are putting in to replace the current Engine 8 next budget year, so we will have a chance to make it even better.
shevais - 03/13/14 - 11:01

It’s a rewarding and at times frustrating thing to be a part of the committee that specs new apparatus. I remember working for one agency that was purchasing a new pumper. It was decided that the new one would have all of the things that the previous trucks did not have, and a strong case for this had been made to the governing body. A specified amount was placed in reserve, with the promise of more the next year.

So, the time came to finalize the deal, and alas, the governing body did not add anything in to the budget, so things started getting cut. It finally got down to a point that the truck was several thousand dollars over what was budgeted and the governing body had stated “no more money”.

The choice had to be made between a 1,000 gallon tank (in an area with limited water supply) and its added costs to the suspension and chassis, or the automatic transmission (for you guys who do not remember, we used to have to shift gears with a clutch) with its added costs. Or no truck.

No, I don’t miss that a bit. Hats off to those departments that allow their folks to participate, and to those that step up to the task.
Old Goat - 03/13/14 - 11:45

@shevais – Thanks for the info. While I have you, would be interested in chassis choice (Velocity, Impel, Arrow XT, etc) and is there a pre-piped deck gun? Also, speak to the three light bars, similar to what Fayetteville has been using. Lastly, are the brow lights configured for response mode? Looking forward to see the low hose bed in person. Thanks!
harkey - 03/13/14 - 12:59

The committee made a trip to Fayetteville to look at their recent pumpers. The 3 light bars was one of the things we looked at and liked, and used. The others are the coffin compartments and the engineer’s “locker” an area in the driver’s rear compartment set aside for the engineer’s gear so it’s not crammed here or there.

Yes there is a pre-piped deck gun, and a booster reel (which was moved to the top from the bottom rear). There is also a shower nozzle, which all CFD Engines have that is located above the pump panel.

As for chassis selection this was a large part of our discussions. But in the end AES bid a Velocity cab/chassis, and the bid was awarded to them so that is what we went with.
shevais - 03/13/14 - 16:24

@shevais Is it as wide as the current trucks or smaller? I know in the rural areas where im from were having issues with the trucks being too wide for the roads.
John Richardson - 03/13/14 - 17:32

John, We currently have 8 Velocity models in service in Cary. E1, E3, E7, R2, R4, R7, L3, L6, so it is the same width as they are. It is wider than our current engine, and I’m sure there are some tight squeezes that we will have to learn to work with.
shevais - 03/13/14 - 17:48

I think the spec’s were well thought out. As much as I hate to say it I believe Cary will be replacing Raleigh in setting the standards for new rigs. After seeing Raleigh’s new rigs in person I’m pretty disappointed. Way too much emphasis on “bling” and “wow factor” and not what is truly needed like Cary’s new rig. Way to go!!
Rescue Ranger - 03/13/14 - 22:25

I was on the spec committee for the first Velocity with Rescue 7. The reason for that cab at the time was firefighter safety. At the time, the Arrow XT did not have airbags, and the other cabs are not as beefy with materials under the finishing. We have photos of the cabs in the fab stage and it is impressive the thought and amount materials that went into the Velocity. Now Pierce has added airbags to most of the models they sell. We have discussed other models, but the room and the service we have had from the Velocity, they are a good fit for our department.
Donaldson - 03/13/14 - 23:03

I am curious… can you give some examples of Raleigh’s “Bling and Wow?” I am actually being serious and am interested. Are there features/items that would provide a more effective or efficient capability for you on the job if working from a standard Engine Company (outside of a lowered hose bed)? The new Squads don’t count as they are specialty apparatus.
A.C. Rich - 03/14/14 - 00:19

Mr. Holland is correct. The Husky 12 is not 40,000 dollars system but our total cost was very close. Here is the break down on our requirements for a foam system:
Husky 12 (Class A and B)
25 gallon Class A foam cell
30 gallon Class B foam cell
Foam to 8 discharges
Class A foam tank refill (can refill foam tank from ground)
Class B foam tank refill (you have to have a separate pump to ensure that you don’t mix the different foams)
Foam nozzle attachments to our TFT nozzles
Pierce foam training in NC. 8 hours for three days

I hope this information helps this conversation.

Be safe my friends
Brian Couch (Email) - 03/14/14 - 00:25

Question about the Velocity and Arrow XT chassis; Does Pierce not offer a transverse compartment under the rear seating in the 70” and 67” cabs? I see the little side compartment like the Cary unit and taller on other units, but haven’t seen it as a transverse style across the whole rear like on a Spartan LFD cab.
Lee - 03/14/14 - 17:08

@Lee, We do make a transverse compartment. You have to go to a larger Cab (ArrowXT 84in) Cotton Fire Department Cumberland County has one.
Chad Holland (Email) - 03/14/14 - 19:09

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