Old Oshkosh P-15 Crash Truck in Goldsboro (2014)

This is a re-posting of a Blog Archives post that is no longer available. It was originally posted on May 23, 2014.

Photographs From 2014

See Flickr album.

Posting From 2014

Need an excuse for a Memorial Day Weekend road trip? Tool down to Goldsboro to behold this 1990 Oshkosh P-15 military crash truck. It’s located at 325 Stoney Creek Church Road, about a mile east of Highway 117. That’s the intersection with the Belfast Fire department, so it’s an easy road to find. The truck’s for sale and is parked at Cardinal Mini-Storage. Drop a line for contact information. 

The truck served at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada and then at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base outside of Goldsboro. After retirement, it was sold to a private owner, who purportedly drove the thing to the storage space. (Bet that convoy was something to see!) The truck’s been there for some years, and has since changed hands, and is now for sale. Owner says the truck runs and the tires are good. (Was raised on jacks for a number of years.)

Placard says shipping weight was 41.25 tons. Add 25 more for the 6,100 gallons of water it carried, plus 515 gallons of foam. Powered by twin Detriot Diesel V8 engines. Five-speed transmission. Twin 1,250 GPM pumps, and twin 1,200 GPM turrets. First introduced in 1977. Approximately 150 built for the military, which must be both US and other countries. Sources: http://tinyurl.com/l82d28c and other sites found via Google. Was listed in the Guinness Book of World’s Records for some years as the most powerful fire engine in the world.

Adds military historian Pete Brock, the P-15 was assigned to air bases that had large frame aircraft assigned such as the C5, C141, B52, and KC135. Bases nearby with them were Seymour Johnson, Pope (for a short time only), Charleston, Langley, and Knoxville. Total of 64 units were built for the Air Force (three in 1977, twenty-five in 1979, twenty-five in 1980, and eleven in 1990). The Navy had four units with the closest one at Norfolk Naval Air Station. None were used by other branches of the United States military.

There was no civilian model constructed, through the Oshkosh M4000 was a close cousin. Lower profile and only front mounted monitors that were (if memory serves, says Legeros, remote instead of manual monitors). The 1990 model of the P-15 cost $660,000 each. And if you want to buy this baby, don’t plan to drive the thing in North Carolina. The DMV won’t issue road permits. You’ll have to transport via lowboy and even then probably remove the tires! (That detail from reader Tim Henshaw, who knows a thing or two about transporting old rigs.)

See full series of walkaround photos. And whlie you’re there, scroll through this collection of photos for tours of an American LaFrance Type O-11A crash truck and a 1958 Walter crash truck from Minneapolis.

Original Reader Comments

DJ – I would just like to have one of the turrets, preferably the front one since that is the one I got to flow water with) and set it up in my front yard, as a sort of memorial. Of course, if I did that, I would have to keep the whole truck and turn it into an apartment or something to live in…

Robert – I served in the Air Force from 87 to 91 and i never got to operate one of these but i did get to drive the P-2. That thing was awesome to drive and chase aircraft!! I guess it would be the next biggest truck under the P-15, it carried 2000 gals of water and would give pumpers a run for their money with its dual Detroit’s!!

Randy – Tom Bender fire marshal of Chatham county would be your local expert.  He worked at Seymour and drove the rig.  We did a tour and it is very impressive. It could sit still and pump 2400 GPM or pump and roll 1200GPM. They could not take it off the runway because it would tear down the power lines because it we so tall.

Cody – Luckily, I have a Hot Wheels Airport Rescue, which is modeled after it. Luckily at about four inches long, I don’t have to worry about finding a place to put it. Good luck to whoever buys it. It’s going to need a little work, and a huge building to put it in. I just hope whoever buys it doesn’t do something stupid with it–as in turn it into an RV. I hate it when people “repurpose” old fire apparatus.

Chuck – I worked at National and Dulles airports from 1981 to 2009.  We had a P-15 at each airport, what an awesome rig to drive and operate.  Oshkosh also made a civilian version, M-4000, sometimes called an M-15.  National and Dulles were federally owned and operated before 1987, I guess that’s why we had military versions.

Yeager – Oshkosh made 4 civilian models similar to this rig. M23 had 6000 gallons of water & 500 foam. Memphis FD had one but it has been scrapped. The others were at Ft Hood, TX and not sure on the others.

No Name – How much do they want for it?

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Vintage Photo of Garner’s 1958 Ford/American LaFrance Pumper (2015)

This is a re-posting of a Blog Archives post that’s no longer available. It was original posted on October 22, 2015.

Found via the SPAAMFAA on Facebook, via this posting from Scott Mattson, here’s a rare color photo of Garner’s 1958 Ford F-600/American LaFrance pumper, 500/500. (Original capacity was 300 gallons.) Was the second new pumper delivered to Garner, following a 1957 Chevy 10-500/American LaFrance. (See subsequent posting with a picture of the 1957 Chevy/ALF.)

The department was organized in 1952 and operated a 1941 Ford mini-pumper (ex-Durham), a 1942 International pumper (added in 1954), a 1948 Chevy tanker (built by firefighters), and a 1952 GMC panel truck provided by the local office of Civil Defense. See old photos of same, via the Raleigh Fire Museum.

This was Engine 2 and was labeled “municipally owned.” Was purchased by the town ($10,627.32) but housed and operated by the fire department. (The fire department was and remains a private organization that received outside funding and equipment in addition to the monies and donations they received.)

The department also operated as two departments for a number of years. Reported the Raleigh Times on September 16, 1959, the town board that week approved an ordinance for forming a municipal fire department. Same would have a Fire Chief and Assistant Fire Chief as elected by the Board of Alderman, plus any other personnel as deemed needed. (The story notes that the town board and fire department agreed that the Volunteer Fire Chief would also serve as the Municipal Fire Chief.)

Though separate on paper, the two departments shared the same infrastructure. Same building and most of the same equipment. (Some assets were town-only, of course. They also maintained separate rosters.) Unsure how long this continued. Through the late 1960s, at least.1

Engine 2 was later housed at Station 2 on Sauls Road. Lee Wilson photographed the truck in November 2012 at Ken’s Corn Maze on Highway 50, south of town. The owner (Battalion Chief Ken Walker) found the truck in a junkyard and bought it and brought it to the maze. Maybe readers can help with more history.
 


Scott Mattson Collection


Lee Wilson photo

1Why have separate town and “rural” departments? In the case of Garner, the news story noted that the “chief advantage of the ordinance is that it gives the fire chief authority as a fire inspector.” This empowered him with legal authority not afforded to the (position of) volunteer fire chief. Also, there were differences in (fire) insurance districts. One corresponded to the property inside the municipal limits of a town. The other was the “rural” district, consisting of area(s) outside a town’s limits. We’ve talked about this in prior blog postings, such as these from October 2011 and March 2009.

Additional Information

News story. Click to enlarge:

Annual report, 1961. Click to enlarge:

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Save the Date – Preserving Your Fire Department Heritage – August 10, 2018

Save the date in August when the state firefighters convention returns to Raleigh, and Mr. Blogger becomes Mr. Speaker. 

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Preserving Your Fire Department Heritage

  • South Atlantic FIRE RESCUE Expo
  • Raleigh Convention Center
  • Friday, August 10, 2018
  • 9:00 a.m. – 10:30 a.m.

Workshop Description

The history of a fire department is a rich tapestry that combines people, places, things, and events. And it’s comprised of many moving pieces, including photos and videos, scrapbooks and news clippings, physical artifacts, first-person memories, and official records. This workshop provides an introduction to those concepts, as well as steps for getting started with defining, compiling, and sharing your fire department’s history. The presenter will also share personal tips and tricks, and conclude with a question and answer session. 

Learn More

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From 2008, Evaluating and Applying Closure Criteria to Western Wake Station 2

Found this the other week: Western Wake Fire Station #2 – Evaluation and Application of Fire Commission’s Closure Criteria.

From 2008 or abouts. (It’s undated.) View the document (22MB, PDF).

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The document detailed the recommendation to close Western Wake Fire Station #2, to reduce cost and improve service through contracted fire protection with the town of Cary. And it was approved by both the county fire commission and Board of Commissioners.

Funding was discontinued and the station ceased operation on June 30, 2008. Though the fire department retained ownership of the property, the station’s units were no longer dispatched for responses to the station’s now-former district.

The building at 325 E. Durham Road was subsequently vacated and sold to a private owner on June 25, 2010.

Back Story

In January 2004, the Wake County Fire Commission received results of a fire and EMS facilities and equipment study. Among its recommendations were closures of some fire stations, with fire protection contracted from neighboring departments.

“The study’s consultants observed that the stations identified for closure evaluation serve unincorporated areas that have been largely annexed by municipalities, and the fire department’s units from those stations often must travel past municipal fire stations to serve relatively small unincorporated areas.”

Though the entirety of the study was rejected by the commission—they voted not to share with county commissioners—the recommendations for fire station closures remained an action item.

The fire commission and county staff began working on long-range facility and equipment planning, which was later combined with developing a Long Range Business Plan for the “fire tax service district.”

In July 2004, the fire commission approved a list of criteria to evaluate fire stations for closure. In February 2005, county commissioners received the Long Range Business Plan, the criteria for evaluating station closure, and a list of stations recommended for evaluation: Eastern Wake #2, Wake New Hope Station #1, and Western Wake Stations #1 and #2.

Western Wake Station #2 was the first station evaluated using the criteria. On June 16, 2008, county commissions approved the recommendation for closure. They voted to discontinue funding of the fire station, and to begin contract service with the Cary Fire Department. As noted above, the station ceased operation on June 30, 2008.

The county continued the process of evaluating other fire stations for closure. This caused concerns among members of the fire commission. In January 2010, they voted to suspend the process. No subsequent actions have been taken in that direction.

Read more of that history.

Earlier Closures

Only a handful of county fire stations have closed over the years. That is, excluding those that closed and relocated within 2.5 of their old location:

  • 1960 – Western Boulevard FD
  • 1982 – Wake Forest FD #2
  • 1992, circa – Durham Highway FD – Station 1 on Davis Drive.

See above “read more” for more information.

Short History of Station 2

Western Wake Station 2 was originally occupied by the Yrac Fire Department. They were chartered in 1961 as the Cary Rural Fire Department, Inc. Their first fire station was a rented garage behind Cricket’s Service Station at the corner of Cedar and Ward streets.

In 1962, the department changed its name to Yrac Rural Fire Department, Inc. That’s Cary spelled backwards. In 1966, a permanent fire station was erected on Durham Road, on land donated by M. E. Sutton.

Yrac FD operated until June 1998, when they consolidated with Fairgrounds FD and created Western Wake FD. The new department started operation on July 1.

Read more Yrac history. Read more Western Wake history.

 

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Better Photo of Chief Butts… Found!

In 2012, the Raleigh Fire Department published a centennial history book. The project committee included Mr. Blogger, AKA Mr. Historian. For the histories of the Chief of Department, we needed portraits of each person. But their quality varied greatly.

One better picture needed was Fire Chief William Ralph Butts, who served 1941 to 1947. We had a scratchy copy of a copy, and we found an somewhat better version with a scanned copy (from microfilm) of his obituary. (Via local history library, via first finding his death certificate on microfilm.)

Found The Original

Fast-forward to 2018, and the original has surfaced, from a collection of materials from retired Captain B. T. Fowler (1951-1986). He was the department’s historian for many years. He’s also the father of retired Fire Chief Earl F. Fowler (1999-2005).

Left is the obituary image. Right is the original. Or should we say, apparent original? Looks like a clear match, except that it doesn’t. Butts seems older in the obituary image. But that’s probably or certainly an illusion from the reduced resolution of the newspaper printing process. 

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Victory Ball Committee, 1944

The picture is cropped from this larger group photo taken in 1944. It shows the “Committee for Victory Ball” in front of Memorial Auditorium. 

Who else is pictured? To the right of Chief Butts is Assistant Chief Robert Lee Matthews (1926-1963). Unsure of the others. Click to enlarge:

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Design Approved for Wendell Falls Fire/EMS Station

This afternoon, the Wake County Board of Commissioners approved the design for the Wendell Falls Fire/EMS Station. These four documents (PDF) were part of the presentation:

The joint facility will be located on 2.76 acres on Taylor Road, about 500 feet from Wendell Falls Parkway. This location is about a half-mile from the US 64/264 interchange. The site was approved for acquisition in November 2016.

Wake County will own the property and the building. It will be occupied by Wendell Fire Department (as a third station) and Eastern Wake EMS (housing EMS units and administration). 

The single-story, 16,549-foot facility will be equipped with four double-length apparatus bays, living and sleeping quarters, a training room, an exercise room, laundry space, and 44 parking spaces. 

Construction is expected to start in Fall 2018, with a twelve-month construction time. The project will cost just over $7 million, including land.

Here’s a rendering by designers ADW Architects. Looks great! Click to enlarge:

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New Research – American Eagle Flights 3378 & 3379

Announcing new historical research about American Eagle flights 3378 and 3379 and the emergency response to both crashes. 

Flight 3378 crashed into a reservoir at Raleigh-Durham International Airport on February 19, 1988. All twelve souls aboard were killed.

Flight 3379 crashed into the woods near Davis Drive in Morrisville on December 13, 1994. Fifteen passengers and crew were killed. Five passengers survived. 

A memorial to both flights was erected at Carpenter Park in Cary, and dedicated in 2016.

Visit the history site, which includes stories, images, and data about both crashes, as well as information about the memorial and its dedication.

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Wake County Fire Commission Meeting – March 15, 2018

The Wake County Fire Commission met on Thursday, March 15. Apologies for not posting this agenda information in advance. Among the items discussed were “two for one” apparatus replacements for four departments. See below for meeting highlights.

View agenda packet

Agenda

  • Meeting Called to Order: Chairman Billy Myrick
    • Invocation
    • Pledge of allegiance
    • Roll of Members Present
  • Items of Business
  • Adoption of Minutes for November 16, 2017 Regular Meeting
  • Annual Election of Chairman and Vice Chairman – Nick Campasano
  • Approval of Agenda
  • Public Comments:
    • Comments from the public will be taken at this time. Members of the public are invited to make
      comment to the Commission, with a maximum of 3 minutes per person. A signup sheet for those
      who wish to speak during the public comments section of the meeting is located at the entrance of
      the meeting room.
  • Regular Agenda
    • Recommendation for sub-committee consolidation
    • North Region Committee Appointments
    • South Region Committee Appointments
    • Apparatus 2-1 Replacements and possible relocations
    • County purchase of Town of Fuquay-Varina Tanker
  • Information Agenda
    • Fire Tax Financial Report
    • Standing Committee Updates
    • Administrative
      • Apparatus
      • Budget
      • Communications
      • Equipment
      • Facility
      • Staffing and Compensation
      • Steering
      • Training
      • Volunteer Recruitment & Retention Committee
    • Chair Report
    • Fire Services Report
  • Other Business
  • Adjournment – Next Meeting April 26, 2018

Two For One Apparatus Replacements

Four departments were approved for “two for one” apparatus replacements:

  • Garner FD – Engine 11 (1998 Pierce Dash) and Rescue 2 (1997 Pierce Saber heavy rescue) are scheduled for replacement in FY19. Request to replace both with ladder/rescue combination, at same cost-share cost to county, for cost of one heavy rescue. Approved.
  • Fuquay-Varina FD – Engine 5 (year/model?) is FY19 replacement. Request to replace Engine 5 and Rescue 2 (year/model?) with ladder/rescue combination, at same cost-share to county, for cost of one heavy rescue. Rescue 2 given to county, for reallocation. Approved. (Note: Town budget not finalized, so proposal is planned/intended.) 
  • Zebulon FD – Ladder 95 (1987 Duplex/Grumman platform) and Rescue 9 (2009 GMC/MWF medium-duty). Request to replace both with ladder/rescue combination, at same cost-share to county, for cost of one heavy rescue. Rescue 9 given to county, for reallocation. Approved. (Note: Town budget not finalized, so proposal is planned/intended.)
  • Northern Wake FD – Ladder 15 (1999 Pierce Dash ladder) is  FY21 replacement. County wants to move to FY19 for replacement, to take advantage of multiple truck purchase, with county buying four ladders at once, with potential savings of $27,500 per truck. New ladder would be a ladder/rescue combination. Request to replace Ladder 15 and Rescue 25 (2009 Spartan/Hackney heavy rescue, former Stony Hill FD) with ladder/rescue combination. Rescue 25 returned to county, for reallocation as resource. Approved.

Upon completion, county would have three rescues for reallocation. Three FDs have rescues scheduled for replacement in the next three years. The newly acquired rescues would be moved to these three departments. This would save county $864,000 over next three years.

Planned allocations:

  • NWFD R25 > EWFD, currently operating 1997 International/E-One
  • FVFD R2 > Rolesville, currently operating 1998 Freightliner/E-One
  • ZFD R9 > WWFD, currently operating 1999 HME/EVI

All were approved as budget directions, and subject to approvals as needed by fire department boards and as supported by municipal budgets.

Note: View agenda packet documents for more details.

More Highlights

New Chairperson and Vice Chairperson elected:

  • Keith McGee, Apex Fire Chief – Chairperson
  • Lee Price, Wake New Hope Asst. Chief – Vice Chairperson

County purchase of FVFD tanker:

Fuquay-Varina FD is receiving a new tanker. Their 1995 Freightliner/S&S tanker will be retired. It is being offered for sale to the county, for allocation to Holly Springs FD. They need a tanker to meet requirements for available water and water hauling capabilities, within rural areas covered by HSFD. Approved.

Helmet color standardization:

Equipment subcommittee recommended standardizing helmet colors for department members not qualified for structural firefighting. Recommend orange or yellow helmets. This augments an earlier recommendation that standardized colors county-wide as red, black, and white. Approved.

Wendell Falls fire/EMS station:

Facilities subcommittee reported that plans are nearly finished for the Wendell Falls fire/EMS station. Three drive-through bays with an optional fourth bay. Pending agenda item for county commissioners to approve. (Need more details. Site address? Timeframe?)

New fire academy:

Training subcommittee reported. County fire academy 10 planning to start in July.  

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Antioch > Patetown Fire Department Merger in Wayne County

From a reader, the Anitoch Fire Department in Wayne County has merged with Patetown FD. Their fire protection districts have been combined into a single Patetown district.

The change was approved by the Wayne County Board of Commissioners on November 21, 2017, and was effective January 1, 2018.

The Antioch fire station at 2095 Big Daddy’s Road will operated as a Patetown “substation.” From this discussion on our Facebook fire page, we’re told that one former Antioch engine is stationed there, along with Wayne County EMS Medic 10 and a reserve Medic unit.

Antioch Rural Fire Department, Inc., was incorporated in 1959, according to state corporations records. Their corporate status remains unchanged. Patetown Volunteer Fire Department, Inc., was incorporated in 1958.

Memo to self. Remember to update my former fire departments web page

2018-03-16-waynePatetown fire district map, from Wayne County Board of Commissioner meeting minutes, November 21, 2017

2018-03-16-wayne2Antioch fire station, Google Maps

2018-03-16-wayne3Patetown fire station, Google maps

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Raleigh Fire Department Recruit Video, 2001

Presented by the Raleigh Fire Museum via their YouTube channel, here’s another “vintage” recruit video. From Academy 26, which ran from fall 2000 to spring 2001. Lots of familiar faces, both doing push-ups and those ordering the doing of push-ups. See my RFD history page for recruit class pictures and other historical information. 

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